Curse

Lanier · May 18, 2011, 12:07 AM // 00:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stéphane Lo Presti

While the last few skill updates have been centered around the Dervish, we'd like you to know that we are continuing to work on future skill balances for other professions. However, we felt that it was important to release these changes to the Dervish quickly, in order to address problems in the meta before the next MAT.

Good to know. Keeping my fingers crossed that the state of paragons in PvE will be addressed.

Artisan Archer · May 18, 2011, 12:40 AM // 00:40

Aura of thorns skill change is the best one imo. This change will go a long way in getting rid of facerolling dervishes just blowing people up. Other changes are ok too, I guess.

Dagoth Umbra · May 18, 2011, 01:03 AM // 01:03

Why the hell is every single skill not split?

ErrantVenture · May 18, 2011, 01:34 AM // 01:34

Hurray for putting dervs back in their place and (an attempt at) fixing a broke, faceroll meta

Quote:

Originally Posted by Artisan Archer

Aura of thorns skill change is the best one imo. This change will go a long way in getting rid of facerolling dervishes just blowing people up. Other changes are ok too, I guess.

The recharge on heart of fury and the changes to onslaught + pious fury are the most important since they deny dervishes a good, maintainable IAS which will go a long way towards making them inferior to warriors at applying pressure.

Swingline · May 18, 2011, 01:44 AM // 01:44

Glad to see the dervish is finally getting some ANet hate that it so deserves but I'm still disappointed to see there's nothing being done about eles and rangers

reaper with no name · May 18, 2011, 01:46 AM // 01:46

Ok, while I'm all for fixing the dervish in PvP, this doesn't look like it's going to help much.

Heart of Fury is one of the few skills used by these broken builds that wasn't overpowered. It's drawback was that it's IAS was only 25% instead of the 33% that Frenzy or Flail had. It's actually worse now than it was before the dervish update. Seriously, just make it a maintainable 33% IAS with a downside like that of Frenzy or Flail (so that it can both require skill and still be effective) and be done with it. It's the ideal solution and it's no harder to implement than anything else.

Where was the AoG nerf? That needs a hit just as much as anything else.

AoB still has burning, holy damage, armor, and increased adrenaline all at once. Therefore, it is still overpowered. It simply has too much in one skill. Changing the numbers on some of these things isn't going to fix that. Removing some of the functionalities is the only way.

ErrantVenture · May 18, 2011, 04:02 AM // 04:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by reaper with no name

Ok, while I'm all for fixing the dervish in PvP, this doesn't look like it's going to help much.

Heart of Fury is one of the few skills used by these broken builds that wasn't overpowered. It's drawback was that it's IAS was only 25% instead of the 33% that Frenzy or Flail had. It's actually worse now than it was before the dervish update. Seriously, just make it a maintainable 33% IAS with a downside like that of Frenzy or Flail (so that it can both require skill and still be effective) and be done with it. It's the ideal solution and it's no harder to implement than anything else.

Where was the AoG nerf? That needs a hit just as much as anything else.

AoB still has burning, holy damage, armor, and increased adrenaline all at once. Therefore, it is still overpowered. It simply has too much in one skill. Changing the numbers on some of these things isn't going to fix that. Removing some of the functionalities is the only way.

Pretty much all of what you've pointed out is incorrect. A maintainable IAS (even a 25% one) with no other drawback is broken. You have to either make it non-maintainable or add a functionality that forces the user to cancel it at some points. AoB will still be the best option for dervs (especially since onslaught + WS are getting nerfed) but it still won't be incredibly effective. 25% more adren means that dervs essentially get one free strike of adren every 4 swings or about the same adren fueling as non-elite warrior options. It'll be strong but not OP. It's an elite skill, it should be strong.

As far as AoG, they already killed the skill. It was strong before because it gave an almost +20 constant attack buff combined with a 7s duration degen that was easily maintainable. Now the damage boost is on the same level as a conjure spell and the duration of disease is pitifully short. The skill is basically useless and a waste of an elite slot in serious PvP. If you can't deal with it as an opposing monk you should just stop trying to monk.

Skyy High · May 18, 2011, 04:34 AM // 04:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by ErrantVenture

Pretty much all of what you've pointed out is incorrect. A maintainable IAS (even a 25% one) with no other drawback is broken. You have to either make it non-maintainable or add a functionality that forces the user to cancel it at some points.

Eh....

Quote:

Originally Posted by reaper

Seriously, just make it a maintainable 33% IAS with a downside like that of Frenzy or Flail (so that it can both require skill and still be effective) and be done with it.

Read too fast there, mate?

Brian the Gladiator · May 18, 2011, 05:56 AM // 05:56

The update is ok. If I gained anything from the update, it is that A-Net is at least understanding why Heart of Fury was so imbalanced and is now taking actual measures to balance it. Triple melee is still going to be the most powerful build in GvG and that wont change until a small dose of passive defense i.e. Aegis, is introduced thus requiring guilds to bring actual shutdown capabilities on their midline. Until that day, GvG will continue to be the same old flag-push tug-of-war game it is today and dedicated split will be the only way to actually have fun.

Missing HB · May 18, 2011, 10:21 AM // 10:21

The uodate in itself is good , but however i don't know what to say about completly buffing dervishs and reverting things back a bit on following updates... Seems for me to be a way to get cheap updates but well.. we will see

Aljasha · May 18, 2011, 10:48 AM // 10:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by lemming

I'm curious to see if the damage that the past three months of dervishes have wrought on the population is recoverable.

Since GW is designed for players to return, I don't see a problem here. The ones who left the game for good, left in favour of other games.

Coast · May 18, 2011, 10:52 AM // 10:52

wow realy? I could have done all these changes in like 1hour while they need months.
SERIOUSLY WOW

Swingline · May 18, 2011, 03:31 PM // 15:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coast

wow realy? I could have done all these changes in like 1hour while they need months.
SERIOUSLY WOW

I am sure there more to it than just programming it into the game. There may also be other things such as bug fixes with the update. Who knows in the next few days we could also see the skill updates for the other classes.

Killed u man · May 18, 2011, 04:41 PM // 16:41

Essentially, they're bringing down the effectiveness cap of dervishes, but this still doesn't change the fact any retard can play a dervish at that skill cap. It's still brainless buttonbash.

The only change I really like is the Aura of Thorns one, because now people can't just brainlessly pump targets down. They have to get to the target first, and then brainlessly pump it down. Small improvement, but improvement nontheless.

Also, reducing the duration of all these IAS and IMS is of no use. Not having full uptime does NOT equal a "downside" to the skill. You can't compare frenzy to a skill which only has 80% uptime, for example. Instead, what I rather would've seen was something amongst these lines: "Heart of Fury: For 3...8 seconds, you attack 10% faster for each enchantment on you. If you activate this skill while not enchanted, it is disabled for 10 seconds."

It's not ideal, but you should be able to see the difference between this skill, and the current HoF; instead of preventing people from brainless buttonbashing (which the current one still doesn't do), you should punish it. Punishing it leaves a much stronger impression, so that players will start paying attention to prevent getting caught by the downside of their skills, and essentially create better players.

Simpy by decreasing uptime, players arn't learning anything. There still brainlessly activating skills on recharge.

Missing HB · May 18, 2011, 05:16 PM // 17:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Killed u man

Simpy by decreasing uptime, players arn't learning anything. There still brainlessly activating skills on recharge.

On a side note , i don't think players are learning anything in any PvP format other than GvG....
Most formats just promote buttonbashing especially, skill abusing, format abusing, luck relying.... When you just look at how much you're rewarded for doing it , no wonder most players are playing those builds....

So yes , heart of fury update isn't doing anything at all, but you need to consider that they did that balance according to GvG , where it isn't really about buttonmashing.....quite making no sense but well..

cantalus · May 18, 2011, 05:19 PM // 17:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phear Me

This.

12chars

amazing isn't it, how there were 7 districts over the weekend but still multiple waits when in, and that with 3 districts in the euro evening since then there are still waits and large skips

dervwars drove me away until the last weekend, it's gotta be the most counterproductive update i've seen in as far as retaining pvp population, and this ineffective mininerf strikes me as too little, and probably too late. what i don't understand is why the derv update wasn't confined to pvers, they wanted it, the pvp community didn't care about dervs at all as far i knew. faced a few more or less balanced teams over the weekend, didn't lose once against them, i remember when one felt a sense of achievement when defeating a good balanced team, and it's sad those days are gone

please anet, don't let your pve oriented devs mess with pvp anymore

*lemming* · May 18, 2011, 06:33 PM // 18:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aljasha

Since GW is designed for players to return, I don't see a problem here. The ones who left the game for good, left in favour of other games.

PvP formats are dependent on a critical mass of active players.

Darth_Krizan · May 18, 2011, 07:34 PM // 19:34

damage types on dervishes are stupid, holy damage lol,
Avatar of Balth should be fire, Avatar Of Grenth should be cold, etc...
or give us enscriptions for +10 against holy damage etc...
don't destroy IAS add penalty on it like on frenzy
make fleeting stability prevent KD conditional like if you're weilding a shield...

I mean dervish is All in one class: u can snare, lineback without penalty on DPS, have A LOT of armor while outputing A LOT of damage, u don't even need to switch weapons to fake ppl on shield switching coz u have holy damage lol...

GMs should start playing the freaking game before they update skills.

AndrewSX · May 18, 2011, 07:58 PM // 19:58

Well, imo they're just losing credibility doing the 4th post update fix ONLY to adress Derv moster...and still missing the target.
Is just becoming a long sequences of little and never risolutive nerfs....

voyvoy · May 18, 2011, 07:59 PM // 19:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darth_Krizan

damage types on dervishes are stupid, holy damage lol,
Avatar of Balth should be fire, Avatar Of Grenth should be cold, etc...
or give us enscriptions for +10 against holy damage etc...
don't destroy IAS add penalty on it like on frenzy
make fleeting stability prevent KD conditional like if you're weilding a shield...

I mean dervish is All in one class: u can snare, lineback without penalty on DPS, have A LOT of armor while outputing A LOT of damage, u don't even need to switch weapons to fake ppl on shield switching coz u have holy damage lol...

GMs should start playing the freaking game before they update skills.

QFT!!

Quote:

Originally Posted by StormDragonZ

- Mostly PvP changes to Dervish only? Yawn...

any pve changes needed?